Category: the Rant Board
I normally don’t post these, but today I feel ready for the flack. Bring it on, if you much.
Smile.
Now, I often see post here related to older people needing special treatment when it comes to using, learning, and buying technical toys and gadgets.
I often times wonder why?
Believe it or not, it isn’t age that makes people resistant, unable to learn, or unwilling to try new things.
It isn’t age that makes things necessarily harder to see, but in some cases sure.
Older people aren’t the only people that have visual impairments as we well know?
My mother’s 40 years my senior, and she uses an Android phone and can most likely teach any young person how it’s done.
She carries her iPad in her car, or in a case everyplace she goes, because she likes to Facebook, and other things. She’s got two of them, because she feels she wants the larger screen at home, and her mini when traveling daily.
She has a computer, and uses that too.
She is not specially educated. She graduated from high school where she lived in the country, so you can imagine the education level. That was about 100 years ago.
She is also a black woman.
What she has is the ability and desire to learn, and she can read a manual, and does, like a champ.
My point is, why do young people have this crazy notion that older people aren’t tech savvy?
Younger people have exactly the same issues, but you never see a post about special apps for the young, on here, do you?
It’s time whippersnappers, you understood that old folks will and can use technology better than or as well as you, and do so daily.
The factor that makes this possible it the will or ability to learn.
This is same for young, or old.
I know a “young lady” that doesn’t even use a cellphone, computer, or anyone it. She still uses a pencil, paper, and a pen.
She has a cellphone that rides in the glove compartment of her car in case she needs it in an emergency, and she didn’t choose that, her husband did.
She could care less.
She doesn’t know what a web browser is, not how to shop or whatever online.
Doesn’t even touch the computers in her house, these are her husband’s toys.
Hmm!
Rant over.
Laughing.
They're stereotypes Wayne, not hard and fast rules. Not every old person is
bad at using technology, but many of them are. Not every young person is good
at technology, but many of them are. Enough that its a good bet one way or the
other.
As someone "getting older," I will say that it's getting more difficult with each upgrade. If the idiots that made this crap would stay on the same track, so we don't have to learn a brand new system, every time Windows or Apple upgrades, it would be fine. But, it's like the techs developing stuff say: "It's too easy, and we should change a few things."
Trouble is, changing stuff makes the poorer of us scramble for bucks for the high-priced teachers, that the government quit paying for. They figure we know XP, and we are fine. Well, XP doesn't work, and some of those broke, old or not, have trouble paying for lessons.
At least, Apple has tech support that Gates wouldn't dream of. Anyone ever heard of Billy-boy, giving specialized keyboards away, cause we can't figure out the regular ones? No. They have us buying thousand-dollar screen readers, instead of making sure that medically we are all right. So, you choose: Braille display? Or, your monthly insurance premium? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. It's against the law not to have insurance, so, we are screwed, unless we get arrested for not having insurance. Laughing. Do they give us Braille Displays in Prison? Wonder if Purty provides for it's blind population that cain't afford their medicare? Laughing!
Blessings,
Sarah
I agree completely with post 1. Yes, they may be merely stereotypes, but stereotypes should be resisted as they are inherently unjust.
I would only add one caveat; sometimes a person's willingness or unwillingness to use a technology has nothing to do with the ability, but rather with philosophy. I'll give an example.
Some folks still do not carry a cell phone, smart or otherwise. They are among the 3 percent of the population who are not cell phone users. Is it because they cannot use a smartphone? No it is because they have decided they do not like the tether. They wish to be in the now, with the people they are talking to, not constantly checking the latest tweet, or being interrupted by friend or co-worker at the convenience of the caller. Yes, I know one can turn the phone off, or ignore the constant pings or vibrations when a new text comes in, but human nature makes ignoring the device difficult. So they have chosen to put it in the glove box for emergencies, and not carry it. These are not necessarily older people either, though older people do seem better able to resist the alure of being in constant electronic commune.
I agree that it is a stereotype but from my view and experience, some of my own family who never had cell phones and computers long ago have them now because of their own kids. They see something and like some people they want to be up to date with the latest and greatest. One of my uncle hated cell phones. He always had something bad to say about it. And now, he can't be without it. So in conclusion, I would have to say that times have changed and everyone is moving up to be modern. A lot of people I knew didn't have microwaves and washing machines and they do now.
Wayne, thank you for making this topic. You are exactly right, and so are the others who have said that stereotypes are unhealthy ways to look at things. Because, as you said yourself, some people young and old alike, don't have any desire whatsoever to progress in the world (whether it's due to their philosophy, their upbringing, ETC) makes no difference to me, because all those things lead to the fact that they don't, and often aren't willing to learn new things, because those new things are scary. It's really sad to me, because their world could be so much more open, if they took advantage of what's out there.
Yup, this is not a hard and fast rule but to be fare as we age our minds are not as sharp. It's just a fact. Does this mean older people can't learn? Of course not!
Here's a way every one of us is resistant to change:
Studies have shown that switching to the Dvorak keyboard layout, once learned, increases speed of typing.
I type really fast, if not as accurately as when I had to just use a typewriter. but guess what? I tried the Dvorak thing in the 90s early 2000s when everyone was trying it. After two weeks of absolute pain, I went crawling back to the QWERTY layout, just like an old person back to the piece of paper.
hell, the main editor I use, be it Python, JavaScript or anything else, I have used for over 15 years. Not the same version. And I've written my own extensions for it as projects develop. But because foundationally it works when I have several projects in the air, I've not updated to a new editor. Sure I've updated all my tools, you couldn't not do that, but the base editor is what it is.
Many who know me might be surprised to learn this, since I'm pretty much an easygoing person regarding change.
But we all have our inner Luddite. If not Luddite, our inner geezer resisting change. You on that Dvorak keyboard layout yet? Ready to double your speed? Me neither.
Resistant to change though is not age related.
That is all ages related.
An example of this was the refusal to move from Windows XP to 7, and now 10 from 7.
I could give more examples, but age in this example is not the reason, change is.
Some older folks inbrace change, because they want to keep mentally sharp and have something to challenge them.
Exactly--as you said Wayne, your mom embraces change...and she is far from the only person who does. Good on her, I say!! She will be all the better for it mentally, because it helps keep her mind active. I wish more people were like her.
Change isn't easy for me but I find that I do need to force myself sometimes.
Wayne's right. Plus, the old people against change stereotype is probably for the birds for several reasons now. It came from a time, my grandfather's generation, when so much happened in such a short time (relatively speaking), and the *rate* of change went through a major increase.
Now, we're all accustomed to the rate of change, the hardest thing for my grandparents to get used to.
For the record, my grandparents are dead, my grandfather has been for 30 years now. Assisted living facilities have wi fi and a host of other things now. Yes, there are older folks, especially culturally constrained ones I imagine, who fulfill the stereotype. But it isn't what it was then.
I find it gets harder to do certain things too, but the difference is, we all grew up with the idea of change as at least inevitable, if not a good thing. People didn't always see change that way, culturally. I doubt my grandfather knew any Asians or Mexicans or anyone else from other cultures. He was a simple logger, had run a couple of businesses besides that, and just stayed in his lane, from what I remember. I was a teenager when he died, so I'm sure I'm missing something.
But he could, indeed he did, thump this young fool for chuckling at his ineptness with a small wire job, can't remember if it was his wife's stereo or what. This was before a lot of people had computers, so I don't know what he'd have thought of them. For people like them, it's usually the notion of having the change forced upon them.
But again, that stereotype is pretty dead now. Everyone knows how fast things change. And no matter how hip you think you are, we all know none of us is up on everything. And only a fool would try to be.
I really embrace change and am always interested in whats next.
Especially in technology. I get excited about new stuff.
It could be anything.
Maybe that will change, but right now, no.
bob dylan, i think, once said "if we aren't busy being born then we are busy dying." that's always been my philosophy.
age is a number. years ago, i had a co worker named diana. although her attitude and actions make me get lock jaw from not saying stuff, she's still a friend today. when we were in our 30s she wouldn't use a microwave. never got one until her brothers went out and purchased one for her for christmas. although she used one for years on our job, she will not own a computer. don't even mention cell phone. she's the only person in america who still has a land line with a long distance plan. even though i tell her it's a pain to find someone to read her letters she still sends me lenghthy ones in her teeny tiny cramped handwriting. for heavens sake, she wouldn't go out at night because it is dangerous. she lived out in the back of beyond. this poor soul was old at 25.
on the other hand there was my uncle. at age 84 he got a masters in computer science. this was back in the 90s. my aunt said that one day he just decided to do it, toddled down to the university of hawaii, and signed up. at first the students thought he was some kind of joke. when he started getting the 4.0, they thought differently.
forereel, what i think your beef is besides the perception that us old farts taking too long to comprehend, is that there are people who won't learn. can't learn i can understand. if you try, i'll be patient with you until i die. won't is another matter entirely. right now, i'm registering people for a state convention who can't do it or don't have a pc. what an interesting foray in to the world of the weird this has become. there have been a few who own computers whose attitude is "why should i learn? you'll do it for me."
speaking of learning, here is alittle explanation of how our comprehention changes as we age. pay attention. believe it or not, you'll soon be walking down the road i'm on. we have two kinds of intelligence. crystalized is all our memmories. you know what you wore to school in 9th grade, your first boss's name, what your mother in law said when you dropped that turkey you served at the first thanksgiving dinner after you got married. fluid intelligence is what you ar currently learning. you know, what the new ios10 will have, what the score of the football game on sunday was (by the way go hawks!!!!), and how to pay a credit card bill in paypal. as we age, the fluid intelligence gets sluggish. therefore it's harder to learncomprehend and remember. if you are lucky, what you struggled with today will be transferred from one kind to another.
so basically your perceptions are correct. older people learn differently. so do dyslexics, blind people, and people who have english as a second language. if a vintage person is wise, he/she will discover ways to compensate. using a calendar on the I phone so appointments aren't forgotten, taking notes, etc. etc. too bad many of us don't want to face the fact that our minds are changing.
Resistance to change occurs in more arenas than just technology. If you doubt this, have a chat with any Trump supporter. LOL
I wonder if there have been any societal studies that track resistence to
change as regards to age. I have read studies dealing with change like racial
change, and cultural changes. Like, statistically speaking, young people are
more apt to be in favor of gay marriage than are older people. That doesn't
mean 100 percent of old people are against it. Just that if you take a random
sample of older people, you're more likely to pick one who is against gay
marriage. I'm betting, and here I'm going from simply annecdotal evidence so
grain of salts at the ready please, but in my experience, the same is true of
technological change. I've met far more older people who are adverse to
change, or think that technological change is negatively impacting our culture,
than I have young people.
For example, I've met one or two young people who do not like pokemon go.
They think its horrible. Not that they don't like the game itself, but they don't
like the principle of it. They don't ike how often people are on their phones. I've
met one or two people my age who are like that. I've met dozens of older
people like that, and I've read articles from dozens more. So, maybe its a bias
in my reading, I admit that, but I think there is some weight to the statistics. I'd
be surprised to find out otherwise.
Interesting on the learning thing, Turricane. I'm only 45 so not where some people are yet. But I've already noticed I don't memorize and "pick up" things nearly as quickly as when I was 25.
Hell, when I was 25, any time I moved, I knew my own house the first day. Now I'm actually one of those people that it takes some time to figure everything out, especially while the girls move everything around some. And the dyslexic part of myself usually pays a visit and I get things turned around for awhile.
Same in my line of work: I don't memorize like I once did, but in converse, I do believe I've got considerably better judgment than the cowboy coding of my younger days.
As to culture and technology? In some ways my own daughter is far older than I am in that department. The millennials now call it being an "old soul".
I've seen old and young alike complain about people walking in the park staring at their phones, or Pokémon Go, for instance.
I'm culturally indifferent to technology I guess; it's a tool like any other, and I don't have the Kurzweilian view of it being a super savior, nor the luddite view of it being the undoing of society.
One other thing on learning as you get older: They used to say, keep using your mind and it will stay sharp. But here's the trick: Use it in new ways. If you're a programmer and you keep programming -- an arguably strenuous mental task, that's actually not enough to stay sharp. Do something you've not done, or something you haven't done in quite a while.
I haven't played bass guitar in 25 years. Got me one, fixed the grounding in it, am now practicing every single day. My rather ambitious goal is get my chops back in 4 months, no skipping practice any days, and then join an 80s / 80s 90s hits band for fun.
My brain remembers all the theory, although a few things probably have faded both with time and with my seizure condition -- when you have one of those, certain memory can get fried but you can relearn it.
I'd totally forgotten the circle of 4ths scales exercises until I saw the video. That's going on the list, as well as metronome practice, arpeggios and all the rest including all the popular riffs. So while it's not new, -- I used to play in college, -- bass was never my primary instrument. Keyboards was. And it's been long enough that the muscle memory isn't what it was, plus a few seizures over the years have wiped out some of the memory. So practicing is actually fulfilling this very thing: Stretch your brain to do something entirely different.
That's apparently how you keep your mind sharp, not just doing crosswords or learning the latest technology if you already use technology to begin with.
I love that quote turricane.
I still learn things easy. I think I even learn them better, because I've got more ways to apply a fix, so to speak to a task then I did before.
I believe that was something I learned from my dad.
He'd look at a situation he didn't know anything about, and think about how he could do what he was wanting to do.
His first approach to something was to read about it.
There is ample evidence that older people, in general, become less flexible and more likely to resist change. Yet, like any such statement, that is a generalization. Plenty of older people are far more open minded then both either their contemporaries or many younger people. Younger people have less ingrained experience so change is less disruptive. They also have less experience though with which to cope with things beyond there training, and so can be very resistant to out of the box thinking. Nothing wrong with noting tendencies, but be careful of a generalization becoming a judgement or prejudice.
As far as Pokimon Go: I have been watching the players of this game, and I don't think it is a game really. I know this may sound paranoid, but sometimes experience allows one to see things from a different perspective. I think this is a study of human group behavior and how it can be influenced or perhaps even controlled, masquerading as a game. Psychology is rather often presented to the subject as a game. I have nothing against the game per se, or other online games, but this looks really fishy to me. I don't know the final intent, but I sure hope my surmise is wrong.
Great point about Pokeymon Go, pasco. I've thought that from the day it was released, and people label me as being cynical/no fun/what have you. All you have to do though, is look at what's happening in the world, to see what I mean: people are going crazy, all because they're more focused on Pokeymon Go than getting to their jobs on time, or otherwise sticking to their responsibilities.
Now we're just getting into conspiracy theories. Its not like this is the first time
we've seen this happen. it happens with pretty much everything popular. And
the number of people who have done anything actually out of the ordinary is
extremely small.
I agree Cody.
People like to relax.
People like games, and this is just anyone faze.
Remember Super Mario? It is coming to your iPhone too.
People use to play that game like crazy.
The world still turns just the same.
When something popular, some folks just get afraid of it.
Go Pokimon Go: . I suspect if I could see, I might wonder around a little looking for monsters.
Laughing.
I doubt is seriously, I'm not a game person, but I'd check it out just to see what the fuss is all about.
Sure most older people I've met struggle with certain new concepts but I highly doubt this is the case with every single old person. It's not all about age though age can play a part.
Wayne and others are right, I think we know how to learn better when we get older, even if some things are more difficult. I mean, drastic example: When you're a kid in school, you have to learn the material, but you also have to learn how to study.
So while I'm slower now on some things, I'd say I have a much better grasp of how to grasp things, if that makes any sense at all.
Well Cody and Wayne was it? No this is not just like any fad. I have seen many fads, some pretty silly, some dangerous. This is not one of those.
Last week my son in law, age 40, normally responsible, and yes, fun loving, had trouble sleeping. He got up, left his wife and child, and rode his bike to the park to see if he could find a monster or two. This was well after midnight. He instead found something like fifty other people, all guys, all playing pokimon Go. This park is normally deserted. Sorry guys, that is not a fad, it's something else. This is but one example I've seen myself, not to mention some of the incidents that make it onto local news. You may think it a conspiracy theory, but I am not into conspiracy theories, never have been and this is my observation. I am not repeating a theory from anyone else. I see what I see though, and you may discount it, but perhaps you are just in denial.
as we all know my old fartishness is well established here. pokemon go is extremely concerning to me. it's crowd psychology at its best. no, i am not a conspiracy theorist. right now, i'mtoo busy to watch the news and read opinions. i just heard about this and it started me thinking. of course, since I've never had an original thought, it goes along with ones others have had.
why on earth would someone do what a piece of technology told him/her to do? for heavens sake its our iphone, which is a bunch of circuitry. some person some where programmed this game and are laughing their ass off because we are so gullible. if pokemon go told these people to eat a gallon of ice cream, play in traffic, or kill there spouse would they do it? well, might think about the first choice, but you get my point. anyway what is so cool about finding monsters. they are creepy. they are scary. why is our life richer and more fulfilled because we find them? and the weird thing is, 40 year olds didn't watch pokemon. i can see millennials getting all torked out of shape because of this game. god knows there was a period in my life where geodude and his friends were vitally important guests at our house. of course the people all excited about them were in elementary school. why are we so directionless that we let some iphone app drive our lives?
well, I've ranted. guess i'll go back and watch the weather channel.
i sent that before i meant too. I'd seriously like to know from you who are yonger. please attempt to answer some of the questions in my previous memessage. pokemon go isdisturbing but the phenomenon fascinates me.
Actually that game has a serious security vulnerability. Plus it's silly and dangerous but it is just a game.
Turricane, I'm almost 29 years old, and I stand by what I said, in thinking Pokémon Go is not a fad. I'm no conspiracy theorist; I just watch the news, and read about stupid things that people are doing, all cause of Pokémon Go. Killing each other, robbing each other, breaking into people's houses; those are not things that you generally hear about games doing.
My two cents: Got my first iPhone about two years ago which I still have. I use it for texting, the ocasional phone call (I am hard of hearing,) checking the weather forcast, and as a wake up alarm. That's about it. I'm 33. My assistant who helps me out with shopping trips and such is about 70 uses her phone for so much more. Different strokes for different folks, as they say.